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Community Council Meeting

20/3/2023

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​Gilestone Farm Stakeholder Meeting of the 17th March
Powys County Council wished to note that two neighbouring Powys County Councillors and one neighbouring Community Council had requested to attend however attendance for this meeting had been limited to those who may play a formal role in any processes linked to the future of Gilestone Farm.
It was also noted that James Evans MS had also requested to attend the meeting with the same reasoning provided.
The Community Council representative and the County Councillor noted the need for more information on how these plans would affect the community day to day. The plan needed to be placed in the context of the village and individual villagers, for example information on potential increased traffic and noise. It was noted that this work would form part of the licensing assessment with the local authority and would be undertaken before relevant activities were allowed to proceed.
The County Councillor noted the current traffic issues in Talybont-on-Usk and noted previous conversations around a car park for the village and lack of pavement. The County Councillor felt strongly that these issues would need to be discussed and form part of any agreement for the site.
It was queried whether a full environmental assessment would be undertaken before any activities proceeded. Representatives of Green Man confirmed that all necessary assessments would be undertaken and noted that it currently undertakes said assessments at the Glanusk Estate – an event far in excess of the number of people proposed for events at Gilestone Farm.
The Community Council representative noted that at the Green Man Festival, the attendees leave the site and travel into Crickhowell and noted a belief that this could cause issues in the village. Representatives from Green Man noted that with the Festival, Green Man encourages this as the local community in Crickhowell want the attendees to contribute to the local economy. It was noted that this can be tailored to individual projects and if the local community want attendees for the smaller scale events planned for Gilestone to remain on site, then this can be controlled.
Representative from Welsh Government noted that many of these issues can be provided for through clauses in any potential commercial lease.
The Leader of Powys County Council noted that the current challenges faced by the county were extremely serious. The demographics of the county had changed significantly towards an economically inactive demographic over a number of years and that change was accelerating. The level of challenges faced by local infrastructure such as the school system and the health system were huge and unfortunately getting worse. The Leader noted that it was imperative that proposals such as this were given due consideration in order to try and provide economic opportunities to ensure that the county was able to retain and maintain families and economic activity.
The official from Powys County Council noted that the local authority was open to considering developments such as the one proposed here, however noted that the local authority could not engage until a decision had been made by a Welsh Government Minister on whether to proceed to lease negotiations and to allow the relevant formal licensing assessments to begin. Welsh Government official noted that whilst the decision of the Minister over the coming weeks would be crucial, it would not be a final decision. This decision will relate to whether to proceed to the next stage of the process. A final decision will come later when the Minister is provided will a fuller assessment based on the outcome of licensing and regulatory work and based on the agreed terms of the commercial lease.
An official from Brecon Beacons National Park Authority agreed with the views of Powys County Council and the importance of giving due consideration to developments such as proposed. It was noted that Brecon Beacons National Park Authority would also be open to an Area Plan that would coincide with the consideration of this proposal.
A further discussion was held around the potential for noise at the small-scale events proposed for the site. Representatives of Green Man noted that an initial noise levels assessment had been undertaken by an external expert however more assessment would be needed on being granted access to the site. It would be intended that noise sensors would be placed all around the valley to live monitor the noise escaping from the site to ensure compliance.
More information was requested on the jobs proposed to be created. Representatives from Green Man noted that these would be attractive skilled jobs across a range of different areas within the Green Man brand and in addition, the proposed Creative Hub would also create jobs, promote entrepreneurship and offering business mentoring to emerging businesses.
Representatives from Green Man asked what they could do to work with the community to help aid their concerns. They noted that this proposal is an attempt to develop economic activity in an area of Wales that had traditionally been difficult to develop. It was noted that environmental issues were at the heart of everything that Green Man does.
 Gilestone
Lease needs to go through Ministerial sign-off.  The lease will be with Cwningar as this is the company used to buy or lease land.
Cllr Moorman – Very similar to the information received at last May’s meeting.  WG say they are not there to answer questions about all proposals and offerings.
Science, interactive events, child’s play and interactive models. Irritated not to be invited to meeting, and very few answers. 
County Cllr Cartwright – There’s a difference having WG own the land rather than a private enterprise.  There are protections.  A business plan won’t be provided as it’s commercially sensitive.
Cllr Burdon – What is the strategic business plan, vision and project mandate?  Will Fiona Stewart presentation be shared?
Cllr Short – The lease is not to be signed by Greenman.  This brings risks.  Everything keeps changing, is the site not for Greenman?
Cllr Burdon – Creative Wales is all about filming, animation and gaming, not baking and brewing.  Where’s the creative element?
Cllr Jones – How long do we have to organise a presentation?  We need to get when the lease is to be signed.
County Cllr Cartwright – This is to be a commercial lease with a financial return and not a grant.  We need jobs and skills to retain people.
Cllr Burdon – There must be a communications plan from WG / Greenman.  This cannot just be a roadshow.
Cllr Moorman – There must be a direct route of communication, with a dedicated person.  10 months later the only change is a baking school!
Questions from the public – Gilestone
Gareth Davies – Ideas seem cobbled together.  How much emphasis is there on sustainable farming?
John D. Jones – This is designed to suck people in, the main interest is making money out of music festivals.  This is a marketing exercise.  Questions need to be raised about the lease, cannot farm with other planned activities.  Jobs are welcomed, but why not consider the other available sites across Wales?  £23 million is unexplainable, motivation is music festivals.  Why has there been no consultation, and no public meeting?
Nina Krauzewicz – Is this a permanent lease to Greenman Trust?  Will the farm be sold later to Fiona Stewart?
John D. Jones – 10 years from now Greenman will be sold, and a new company could be running festivals at Gilestone. What protections are there?  Investment in audio surveys means festivals, teaching farming does not work with festivals.  Why is this not understood?
John D. Jones – What partnerships with an Agriculture College or teaching Support does Fiona Stewart have?  There are no experts in her team.
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Official Minutes from Welsh Government

17/3/2023

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Gilestone Farm Stakeholder Meeting
17 March 2023
Theatr Brycheiniog, Brecon

Attendees:
  • Welsh Government (4 representatives)
  • Powys County Council (2 representatives)
  • Brecon Beacons National Park Authority (2 representatives)
  • County Council Elected Representative (1 representative)
  • Community Council Elected Representative (1 representative)
  • Green Man (2 representatives)
    Powys County Council wished to note that two neighbouring Powys County Councillors and one neighbouring Community Council had also requested being able to attend this meeting. However, attendance for this meeting had been limited for practical reasons to those who may play a formal role in any processes linked to the future of Gilestone Farm.
    It was also noted that James Evans MS had also requested to attend the meeting, which was also declined, with the same reasoning provided.
    Welcome and introductions
    The Chair welcomed everyone to Theatr Brycheiniog and thanked them for their time and attendance. A round table exercise was undertaken for all attendees to introduce themselves.
    Background
    The Chair provided some background to the acquisition to the site at Gilestone Farm. It was noted that officials had been in discussions with representatives from Green Man since 2019 to secure a suitable site to expand the brand. This project did not include a consideration to move the Green Man Festival from its current home at Glanusk Estate to Gilestone Farm. Representatives of Green Man noted that the site at Gilestone Farm is simply not big enough to accommodate any event of the scale of the current Green Man Festival and as such, moving the Green Man Festival or hosting similar scale events is not a consideration at the site.
    The Chair noted that economic development projects in Powys had traditionally been challenging due to the unique geography and environment of the county. This project sought to work with an internationally recognised creative brand, with environmental sustainability at its core, to deliver an economic development project in a rural community.
    The Chair provided an overview of the levels of correspondence and government business that had been involved with this project. Nearly 50% of all government business allocated to Creative Wales over the past 12 months was connected to Gilestone Farm. BBNPA and Powys County Council had also received significant volumes of correspondence and enquiries.

It was noted that there had been a number of instances where representatives of Green Man and elected local members had been individually targeted by opponents of the proposed scheme. It was also noted that this had become increasingly personal over the past number of months and it was agreed that such behaviour was not acceptable.
In conclusion, it was noted that this meeting had been called specifically with stakeholders who would play a formal role of the project should it progress. It was hoped that this meeting would seek to agree a way forward and to ensure that the locals are provided with accurate and timely information on the project.
It was confirmed that there was a current Farm Business Tenancy in place at Gilestone Farm until October 2023. It was noted that no decisions would be taken at this meeting on the future of the site and that a decision would be taken by Welsh Government Ministers. It is intended that advice will shortly be submitted to the Minister for Economy for a decision on the next stages of the process.
Several attendees noted the importance of a strong Communications Strategy to accurately communicate with the local community and to allow for open and honest discussion. This was unanimously agreed.
Presentation by Green Man
A presentation was made by representatives of Green Man summarising the main activities proposed for the site.
Questions and Discussion
The Community Council representative and the County Councillor noted the need for more information on how these plans would affect the community day to day. The plan needed to be placed in the context of the village and individual villagers, for example information provided on the potential increased traffic and noise. It was noted that this work would form part of the licensing assessment with the local authority and would be undertaken before relevant activities were allowed to proceed.
The County Councillor noted the current traffic issues in Talybont-on-Usk and highlighted the previous discussions around a car park for the village and the lack of pavement. The County Councillor felt strongly that these issues would need to be discussed and form part of a wider support package for the community from the relevant stakeholders if agreement for the lease of the site is reached.
It was queried whether a full environmental assessment would be undertaken before any activities proceeded. Representatives of Green Man confirmed that all necessary assessments would be undertaken prior to the commencement of any activities.
The Community Council representative observed that at the Green Man Festival, the attendees leave the site and travel into Crickhowell and noted that this could cause issues in the village. Representatives from Green Man noted that this is encouraged as the local business community in Crickhowell want the attendees to contribute to the local economy. It was noted that this can be tailored to individual projects and if the local community want attendees for the smaller scale events planned for Gilestone to remain on site, then this can be controlled.

The Leader of Powys County Council noted that the current challenges faced by the county were extremely serious. The demographics of the county had changed significantly towards an economically inactive demographic over a number of years and that change was accelerating. The level of challenges faced by local infrastructure such as the school system and the health system were huge and unfortunately getting worse. The Leader noted that it was imperative that proposals such as this were given due consideration in order to try and provide economic opportunities to ensure that the county was able to retain and maintain families and economic activity.
The official from Powys County Council noted that the local authority were in principle open to considering developments such as the one proposed here, subject to all the necessary detail being provided and properly considered. It was also noted that the local authority was not really in a position to formally engage on the project until a decision had been made by a Welsh Government Minister on the next stage of the process.
An official from Brecon Beacons National Park Authority agreed with the views of Powys County Council and the importance of giving due consideration to developments such as proposed. It was noted that Brecon Beacons National Park Authority would also be open to the production of a holistic plan which could properly consider this proposal with its significant opportunities within the wider place and public policy setting and which would coincide with the consideration of this proposal. This would need to be independently facilitated given the differing views within the community.
A further discussion was held around the potential for noise at the small scale events proposed for the site. Representatives of Green Man noted that an initial noise levels assessment had been undertaken by an external expert however more assessment would be needed on being granted access to the site. It would be intended that noise sensors would be placed all around the valley to live monitor the noise escaping from the site to ensure compliance.
More information was requested on the jobs proposed to be created. Representatives from Green Man noted that these would be attractive skilled jobs across a range of different areas within the Green Man brand and in addition, the proposed Creative Hub would also create jobs, promote entrepreneurship and offering business mentoring to emerging businesses.
Representatives from Green Man asked what they could do to work with the community to help aid their concerns. They noted that this proposal is an attempt to develop economic activity in an area of Wales that had traditionally been difficult to develop. It was noted that environmental issues were at the heart of everything that Green Man does and the last thing that they want to do is undertake any activity that will go against those core issues. It was noted by locally elected members that communication is key and the community deserves to know the detail of what is planned. Representatives of Green Man noted that they understand and are happy to provide that information however they also noted that there had been a major breakdown of trust with individuals being unfairly targeted in public.
Next Steps

The Chair noted that representatives of Green Man had been requesting a communications plan be agreed for the proposal for some time however Welsh Government had been unable to agree to this request until a decision had been taken by the Minister. It was unanimously agreed that a joint Communications Strategy should be devised if the Ministerial decision is made to proceed to formal lease negotiations. Creative Wales will contact all representatives to advise once the decision had been taken. It was agreed that this Communications Strategy would include community feedback.
Discussions were held about potential options to allow the local community to learn more about the proposals and provide their views. The representative from the Community Council and the County Councillor were asked to discuss this with the Community Council at their meeting of 20 March and provide feedback to Creative Wales officials on how this could be achieved.
It was agreed that a formal note of this meeting would be drafted by Creative Wales officials and shared with all attendees for accuracy before being finalised.


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Notes taken by County Councillor and Chairman at meeting with WG and Fiona Stewart

17/3/2023

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Giletsone Breifing Notes for Talybont Community Council, 
20th March 2023
  • A meeting was held at Theatr Bycheiniog on Friday March 17th to update on Gilestone Farm.  The meeting was called by the Welsh Government and was attended by officials and elected representatives from Powys County Council including local County Councillor Anita Cartwright, Simon Baldwin as Chair of Talybont-on-Usk Community Council, and the CEO and Vice Chair of the Brecon Beacons National Parks Authority.
  • The objectives of the proposal were stated as responding to the critical risks facing Powys today, being the environmental crisis and particularly a significantly ageing population.  They aim to reverse the social decline and contribute to a Rural Creative Cluster, of small businesses. This responds specifically to Welsh Government objectives as laid out in the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act. Also to the Brecon Beacons National Parks key objective to ‘let nature and communities thrive
  • The meeting was the beginning of the consultation process.  The Community Council will remain as a statutory consultee alongside the National Park, Powys County Council and NRW, for both licensing and planning as the project develops.  This will involve a chance to feedback on specific details relating to each aspect of the scheme. 
  • The environmental impact will be properly assessed and managed. Details on environmental procedures will be forthcoming at a later stage.  It was noted that the Green Man team have experience of sensitively managing activity on a SSSI and SAC.  Welsh Government have a statutory obligation to ensure adequate protections.
  • Proposals are based around enhancing the activity that already occurs on-site and visitor numbers are not expected to increase significantly from those reported by the current tenant. No new buildings are proposed. 
  • This involves;
    1. A Creative Hub of small businesses: The businesses on-site are invited to stay, these include a marquee business, market garden, an electrician, woodworkers and training providers.  Other similar businesses will be invited to fill vacant buildings and benefit from the connection to the Green Man brand.  A brewery, bakery and baking school are proposed.  Apprenticeships, training and jobs are expected to be created.
    2. A permanent base for the Green Man Trust, the charitable arm of Green Man: This has supported 10,000 people to date from offering opportunities for young people to access training and skills to supporting local community groups, including those affected by recent flooding of the Usk.
    3. Farming. To improve on existing farming activity as part of the sustainable farming scheme.  This includes a move towards regenerative farming with the objective of reducing phosphates and increasing biodiversity.  For example, via no-plough meadows on the floodplain.
    4. Tourism. Also developing on what is already on site in terms of glamping accommodation, to create a green eco-retreat.
    5. Live experience events which are ‘family friendly and based around wellbeing, science and the Arts.’  For example, partnerships with Universities to provide interactive science engagement workshops.  A garden festival, talks and yoga were also mentioned. Events will be carbon neutral and powered entirely by alternative energy.  Noise will be carefully managed so that outside the site it is quieter than a tractor (under 90 decibels).  This will be monitored by noise level readers around the perimeter. A traffic management plan will be provided as part of the licensing process, which the Community Council will have the opportunity to scrutinise as a statutory consultee.  Visitors can be managed so they do not enter the village, should the community request this. It is expected for only one weekend event to occur in 2024. This will be small in nature so that the specificities of the site and mitigation of risks can be fully understood. There are no plans to offer festivals similar to the Green Man, which will remain at Glanusk.
  • All parties present including Welsh Government, the Green Man team, Powys County Council and the National Park are committed to supporting the village, given it is already a honeypot tourist destination within Wales, Powys and the National Park.  It was suggested that their representatives join the community in developing a Destination Plan for the Village.  For example, to look at improving local facilities and infrastructure, including investigating funding opportunities.
  • All parties are equally keen to listen to the view of the Community.  A roadshow style event was suggested, where residents can see the ideas presented on boards and speak to representatives of the key stakeholders.  Would the Community Council like to take this offer forward?
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Questions submitted by Cllr. Short for Meeting with Fiona Stewart

8/3/2023

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​1.    In February of this year, Ms Fiona Stewart registered a new business with Companies House called Cwningar Ltd, which is listed as being in the business of "Buying and selling of own real estate," and "Other letting and operating of own or leased real estate."  
Its registered address is the same as that of Green Man Festival Limited.
Welsh Government documents show that Cwningar Ltd is the business entity which was set up for the purposes of managing Gilestone Farm.
Is this correct? 
If this is correct will Cwnigar Ltd be sub-letting/leasing/renting Gilestone Farm to the Fiona Stewart’s Greenman companies? 
If Cwnigar Ltd are leasing Gilestone Farm to the Greenman companies what will happen to this lease if the Greenman companies are sold?  Will the lease be terminated as the whole reason for purchasing Gilestone Farm was to secure a permanent site for Greenman and not a festival site for Cwnigar Ltd?

2.    Could you confirm that Gilestone Farm will not ever be used as an extension to the Green Man Festival as stated by Mr Mark Isherwood MS in his audit of The Welsh Government’s Purchase of Gilestone Farm
‘the property acquisition was being progressed to support future expansion of the Green Man Festival.. because the current festival is constrained by the lack of available land to accommodate the number of visitors that could be attracted to the event. In our view, these statements suggested that increasing the festival’s visitor capacity was the primary objective’

3.    Will there be a clause in the lease which guarantees that there will be no more than three events a year and it will be capped at no more than 3000 per event as has been previously stated by WG and Fiona Stewart.

4.    WG have already informed Talybont Community Council about plans for a brewery and bakery.  It there plans for a shop and café/restaurant on the site.  

5.    When will the consultation with the WG, Fiona Stewart and the local residents from Talybont-on-Usk community take place, as promised in the meeting on the 17th November 2022.
       
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Questions submitted by Cllr. Moorman for Meeting with Fiona Stewart and WG

5/3/2023

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These are questions for the meeting at Y Gaer
​
  1. there have been statements in the press by our local MS, james evans, regarding a lack of due process and unsuitability for greenman at gilestone, have you been contacted by him or his office for clarification? if so what was the result?
  2. there have been statements in the press by our local MP, fay jones, announcing ‘that the concerns of local residents have been dismissed in this whole initiative’. have you been contacted by her or her office requesting a meeting to hear residents concerns? if so what was the result? 
  3. as we have had extremely limited information of what is planned, making any affect on the talybont community speculative, do you feel that residents concerns have been heard? how many letters have you received and responded to from our community? 
  4. one of the major concerns has been traffic, parking and the pressure events of 1-3000 will put on the infrastructure of the area. at our only meeting with fiona, when this issue was one of the first raised, she spoke of shuttle busses and traffic management to alleviate stress on an already busy minor road system. has this been explored in greater detail? if so what plans are being considered? How will it affect our community?
  5. at our meeting with the WG in november, a question was raised about their large financial investment in the farm and cwningar and if they would equally invest in improving infrastructure in the surrounding village to alleviate potential problems they may encounter from a burgeoning influx of tourists. the question was passed to Haydn (the senior manager of business solution, economy, science and transport) to pursue. has this been further explored? what possible mitigation has been identified? is it an option? if this has not been pursued, then why? can it be explored in the future? any benefits of potential growth to the economy should be met with careful consideration for those who may be affected. 
  6. at the november meeting, we were informed the wg would be meeting with powys and bbnpa the following week. were the concerns of the council raised at the meeting? how were they addressed and responded to? would it be possible to have a representative of the council as a stakeholder in future discussions to satisfy the ‘need to be heard’? 
  7. you stated you would be pursuing your due diligence for the environment.  have you been refered to the planning ecologist at BBNPA? will a CEMP and bat survey be required? will an EPS license be required? what methods will be undertaken to prevent further phosphate pollution in the river? is the welsh government required to undergo these processes? Will cwningar be required to as lessees?
  8. have you consulted with NRW about the SSSI/SAC river and protected species on the farm? Flood risk? Water management? is the welsh government required to? Will cwningar be required to as lessees?
  9. have you consulted with cadw about the listed monument and building on the farm? is the welsh government required to? Will cwningar be required to as lessees?
  10. According to a pronouncement by the government concerning GMF, “… is a  major employer in mid-Wales making a significant contribution to the local economy”. The evidence for the companies servicing the 2022 Festival was obtained by observation on the Glanusk site and is listed attached. With the exception of the taxi service  all the companies are based outside Wales. Of the 53 caterers, only 15 were from Wales.   what can be done to ensure the money from this ‘investment’ is actually staying in wales?

 
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